I was asked what my feelings were in preserving a marriage where one person believes in relgion or the LDS Faith and the other person does not. Here is my response.
I know that in my situation there were a few times that my wife wanted to leave me, because I was being antagonistic to her faith. I would do things like make up parodies to Church songs that were not conducive to the spirit and sing them. I have read over on the RFM Board many times about marriages breaking up over a difference in faith between the two parties. I was a bit different than some in that I didn't flat out go inactive and refuse to go. Mainly because my wife was the one who threatened to leave me if I didn't at least attend. She basically said it was my unbelief or her. I wasn't willing to get divorced over it because I loved my wife more than I did my feelings about the truthfulness of the Church. Occasionally to avoid going to Church I would FAKE being sick in order to stay home too.
So I wasn't blatantly openly militant about my nonbelief with my wife, and unlike you it sounds like, she refused to look at anything anti, so didn't have the same understanding as it sounds like you do of why I was so angry. So I lived as a New Order Mormon, attending, but dreading every moment. Sneaking away after sacrament to sleep in the van, or go get a Blizzard.
When I would point out that Joseph Smith had married other men's wives and then lied about it to Emma, she would us some lame thing about 'Well they did things different in the 1800s than we do now.' and I would just shake my head, because I knew that they didn't do THAT differently back then.
My biggest thought is this. Is your difference in opinion regarding the Church worth breaking up the marriage over?
My wife would say that we didn't have a valid marriage because we we're sealed in the temple, and therefore, with our covenants broken, we weren't technically married. OUCH! I would have to reply that YES we are still civilly married.
A few things.
1. Don't assume that he has lost his testimony because he wants to sin, or has been offended. That in itself is one of the most offensive things the church says about those who apostasize because it makes them into two dimensional thinkers. In no way did I go out of my way to prove the Church false as a way to enjoy smoking or looking at pornography guilt free. That's just silly. Whether or not a person likes a certain vice has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the Church is true or not.
2. I suggest building a common bond BEYOND the Church. A lot of people do initially get married to someone because they happen to be the right candidate who can take them to the temple, and yet when they get to know each other better have NOTHING in common. He likes Jazz, she likes classical. He likes sports, she likes books. What do they both like the same? Nothing, except they both thought each other was cute and happened to have a temple recommend as required for getting sealed. Once they get married and one loses faith, then what do they have? nothing in common, because the one thing they did have is gone. So start exploring what you both like to do. My wife and I both like to dance. This has nothing to do with the Church, but it is a bond we have.
3. You need to make an agreement of some type with each other regarding boundaries in relation to the Church. If you plan to stay active, then you need to agree with each other that
a. He will not lecture you for going to Church on Sunday, or doing whatever Church activity, and
b. YOU will not lecture him for going and playing golf (or whatever) on Sunday.
He has his personal time to do his personal stuff. You have your personal time to do your stuff, and you have set aside time for each other that revolves around each other, NOT the Church.
If you do pray, and he doesn't, KEEP THEM PERSONAL. One of my biggest pet peeves was when we were both in bed, the lights would turn off and then my wife would start praying, I KNOW to manipulate me to repent.
"Oh lord, please bless that Boxurian will stop being such a hard-necked..." I found it offensive, and it didn't help.
So has your husband officially resigned, or does he still have his name on the rolls?
The next time he starts taking it out on you, you probably need to flat out ask him 'Why are you taking out your feelings about the Church on ME? Are you mad at ME, or at the Church?" and "What does what 'Joseph Smith' did back in the 1840s have to do with ME?"
If you intentionally drove the car off a cliff, then he probably has a reason to be mad at you. If he just read that Joseph Smith ran a distillery in Nauvoo, instead of living the Word of Wisdom, then tell him to take it up with Joseph Smith, or he can sleep on the couch.
So find common ground NOT Church related, and create boundaries for each other on the sensitive subjects.
I hope this helps. Remember, these are just my opinions, and NOT gospel.
Wednesday, April 8, 2009
Monday, April 6, 2009
A Change of Heart
This is a duplicate post from my Rant's Blog, but I believe that it belongs here too.
For the last few years I have been an antagonist of the Church. Always searching for and finding fault with many things in the history of the Church. However, recently I must admit despite knowing the things I do about Church history, I have not been really HAPPY. I have been mostly a miserable wretch. When I discovered that the church was FALSE, a few years ago, I was in so much despair that I contemplated committing suicide, because, what was the point to my life now, if all the things that I had been raised to believe were false?
What was the point of it all? What was the purpose of life. So I spent much of my time after discovering this 'knowledge' about the Church to find ways to try and tear it down and make a mockery of it. I was so bitter from what I had lost. I had at many times contemplated removing my name from the records of the Church, because I was so mad and bitter about the things from the past.
But what had the Church done personally to me? Had they done any great sin to me that would lead me into some evil, or set a trap for me that would affect my physical and mental well being? To be honest, no they didn't. When my house was damaged, it was members who came to my aide.
Often the Church is referred to as the Church of Joseph Smith of Latter-Day Saints who don't believe in the Church any more.
Yesterday in my cynical view I was going to read through the Ensign from the last conference to see how much dirt I could find about 'following the prophet' to show how the Church is a CULT, in the evil sense that it would ask you to drink the Kool-Aid or do a Jim Jones type thing.
As I read I found much testifying of Christ and admonishing a person to live a better life. I never did stop believing in Christ, though through it all I did have some doubts and was leaning towards agnosticism, neither accepting or denying the existence of God. I figured when I died I would find out.
So as I am reading the last conference Ensign, I am thinking...'Well that makes sense.', or 'I agree with that.' or 'that's good advice', or 'that's something I should be doing.' I was thinking wow, I FEEL something here that I haven't felt since the beginning of my marriage when I was active. I feel PEACE in my thoughts. I feel that everything will be okay. I feel that there is some purpose to the world, some order
To give you some idea of how ANTI- I've been, I've actually gotten myself kicked off this board before under another alias. I have mocked many of you over at RFM. I have laughed at you and your beliefs. I have tried to find joy in tearing people of the faith down and kicking them while they are down. I have said that the General Authorities are EVIL men who know they are EVIL, who know that they are duping the members for MONEY and POWER. In reading the Ensign and in listening to conference today though, I did not sense that they were PURPOSELY trying to stab the members in the back and make them grovel at their feet, or trying to HURT us. These men do care about us. I may not agree with everything they say, but they mean well.
I was especially touched by the talk today by Oaks on service. On losing ourselves we will find happiness in the service of others. Many times I think about ME first. How can this benefit me the most. I put self first, sometimes even at the expense of my own family, which I know I shouldn't. I have been so cruel to my dear wife who has stayed faithful in her beliefs and also mocked her, while she as pleaded with me to be one with her in the gospel. I am lucky she has not left me, like so often happens in situations where one loses the faith.
So I do know quite a bit about Church history. Some of it makes me shudder, but I think that there is probably a lot of exaggeration and hyperbole on both sides of the equation.
Probably to nonbelievers reading this, they think 'wow, what a weak and feeble minded fool.' for reconsidering their position and testimony in the Church.
However, when I consider my feelings about the things I have learned and my actions, I know I feel purpose when I follow the teachings of Jesus, and a lack of reason and purpose when I go the other direction. Sure mocking things CAN be fun. I have had lot's of laughs, but no real joy or higher purpose from it.
So I guess I don't KNOW if the Church is the ONLY TRUE AND LIVING CHURCH ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH, but I do know how much better I feel about life when I am doing the things I did as a believer vs. what I did as an apostate antagonist.
For the last few years I have been an antagonist of the Church. Always searching for and finding fault with many things in the history of the Church. However, recently I must admit despite knowing the things I do about Church history, I have not been really HAPPY. I have been mostly a miserable wretch. When I discovered that the church was FALSE, a few years ago, I was in so much despair that I contemplated committing suicide, because, what was the point to my life now, if all the things that I had been raised to believe were false?
What was the point of it all? What was the purpose of life. So I spent much of my time after discovering this 'knowledge' about the Church to find ways to try and tear it down and make a mockery of it. I was so bitter from what I had lost. I had at many times contemplated removing my name from the records of the Church, because I was so mad and bitter about the things from the past.
But what had the Church done personally to me? Had they done any great sin to me that would lead me into some evil, or set a trap for me that would affect my physical and mental well being? To be honest, no they didn't. When my house was damaged, it was members who came to my aide.
Often the Church is referred to as the Church of Joseph Smith of Latter-Day Saints who don't believe in the Church any more.
Yesterday in my cynical view I was going to read through the Ensign from the last conference to see how much dirt I could find about 'following the prophet' to show how the Church is a CULT, in the evil sense that it would ask you to drink the Kool-Aid or do a Jim Jones type thing.
As I read I found much testifying of Christ and admonishing a person to live a better life. I never did stop believing in Christ, though through it all I did have some doubts and was leaning towards agnosticism, neither accepting or denying the existence of God. I figured when I died I would find out.
So as I am reading the last conference Ensign, I am thinking...'Well that makes sense.', or 'I agree with that.' or 'that's good advice', or 'that's something I should be doing.' I was thinking wow, I FEEL something here that I haven't felt since the beginning of my marriage when I was active. I feel PEACE in my thoughts. I feel that everything will be okay. I feel that there is some purpose to the world, some order
To give you some idea of how ANTI- I've been, I've actually gotten myself kicked off this board before under another alias. I have mocked many of you over at RFM. I have laughed at you and your beliefs. I have tried to find joy in tearing people of the faith down and kicking them while they are down. I have said that the General Authorities are EVIL men who know they are EVIL, who know that they are duping the members for MONEY and POWER. In reading the Ensign and in listening to conference today though, I did not sense that they were PURPOSELY trying to stab the members in the back and make them grovel at their feet, or trying to HURT us. These men do care about us. I may not agree with everything they say, but they mean well.
I was especially touched by the talk today by Oaks on service. On losing ourselves we will find happiness in the service of others. Many times I think about ME first. How can this benefit me the most. I put self first, sometimes even at the expense of my own family, which I know I shouldn't. I have been so cruel to my dear wife who has stayed faithful in her beliefs and also mocked her, while she as pleaded with me to be one with her in the gospel. I am lucky she has not left me, like so often happens in situations where one loses the faith.
So I do know quite a bit about Church history. Some of it makes me shudder, but I think that there is probably a lot of exaggeration and hyperbole on both sides of the equation.
Probably to nonbelievers reading this, they think 'wow, what a weak and feeble minded fool.' for reconsidering their position and testimony in the Church.
However, when I consider my feelings about the things I have learned and my actions, I know I feel purpose when I follow the teachings of Jesus, and a lack of reason and purpose when I go the other direction. Sure mocking things CAN be fun. I have had lot's of laughs, but no real joy or higher purpose from it.
So I guess I don't KNOW if the Church is the ONLY TRUE AND LIVING CHURCH ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH, but I do know how much better I feel about life when I am doing the things I did as a believer vs. what I did as an apostate antagonist.
Starting a Thread about Thoughts on Faith
I thought I would start a new blog dealing with my insights and my thoughts on things of a religious and spiritual nature. I will admit right off that I was raised as a Mormon, or Latter-Day Saint. I will also confess that I have been through many transitions in my faith, having periods of belief and unbelief. This blog and journal will deal basically with what I am studying and learning of a religious nature, my thoughts on God, any transitions on those thoughts and also what insight's I am gaining. Recently I have had a change in my antagonism towards the Latter-Day Saint faith and the pendulum is heading back into the direction of belief in the faith that I was born with. What I think I am holding onto very strongly is my faith in God and in Jesus, and that I believe that the LDS faith is truly a Christian faith, though I have not specifically become as a TBM whom views it as 'The Only TRUE and Living Church on the Face of the Earth' I have tried though to look at the good it does and not be so stressed about a lot of the bad things in it's history. A part of me believes that God will make all things right in the end after this life.
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